From energy and defence to digital infrastructure, materials have become critical drivers for national competitiveness. With copper demand alone projected to outstrip supply by 30% in 2035, access to materials is increasingly shaping industrial policy, trade relations and security alliances.
How can economies strike a balance between securing their materials needs while remaining open and innovative?
This session was developed in collaboration with Foreign Policy Magazine.
This is a livestreamed session. Please arrive 15 minutes early as the doors will close at the scheduled time.
At Davos, panelists argued that intensifying demand from electrification, digitalization and decarbonization is colliding with slow, geopolitically fragile supply chains for critical materials. Teck CEO Jonathan Price warned copper demand could double by 2035 while known supply leaves the world “30% short,” a gap that would constrain data centers, transmission buildout and EV adoption. The core mismatch is timing: mines can take 10–20 years to develop versus 1–3 years for data centers, compounded by permitting delays and trade uncertainty.
Saudi Industry Minister Bandar Alkhorayef positioned mining as an economic diversification pillar under Vision 2030, claiming Saudi has reduced licensing to “between 30 and 90 days” by treating permitting as a bottleneck while emphasizing community impact and “future mines,” not “old mines.” Price countered that rigorous environmental baselines and indigenous consultation must remain, calling for a “predictable and repeatable process.”
Development Bank of Southern Africa CEO Boitumelo Mosako argued Africa’s advantage is minerals, but the model must shift from “pit to port” extraction to beneficiation, regional coordination, and infrastructure corridors such as Lobito to improve leverage.
SandboxAQ CEO Jack Hidary reframed risk: even if AI demand cools, physics-based AI and quantum tools can redesign materials and reduce dependence on concentrated supply chains by finding substitutes for inputs like neodymium. The geopolitical implication: resilience requires diversified processing, manufacturing, and cross-border collaboration rather than forced bloc choices.
I'm Ravi Agarwal, the editor in chief of Foreign Policy magazine. A warm welcome to all of you inside this room, and also a warm welcome to our global audience watching this live on Wef's website, but also Foreign Policy's website, where we are live streaming this on my show FB live. Our session today is called The Geopolitics of Materials. Now, material is a very big word and it encompasses a lot of different things. And that could include metals and wood and glass and plastics and critical minerals as well. Now, most of these things have been around and been in demand for a very, very long time. Going back to the Industrial Revolution, if you can agree that we are now in a new revolution, an AI revolution. It would follow then that there is a new scramble for many of these kinds of materials, and in particular critical minerals. And this scramble is both being shaped by geopolitics and is shaping geopolitics in a very profound way. And when you add in to that, the growing forces of protectionism, nationalism, nearshoring, which accelerated after the pandemic, all of this in a moment of intense geopolitical flux, where alliances are shifting in a world in which it seems that might is right. These materials then become ever more important. They are truly the building blocks of competition between countries and companies. So I have a great panel here to talk about all of that. I'm just going to quickly introduce them and then we'll dive in. To my immediate left. We have Bandar al-Sharif, Saudi Arabia's Minister of industry. To his left, Boitumelo Masoko, the CEO of the development Bank of Southern Africa. To her left, Jonathan Price, the president and CEO of Teck Resources. And to his left, we've got Jack Hidary, CEO of sandbox AQ. Welcome, all of you. Thank you for making the time to be here. Jonathan, I'm going to start with you. There's, as I said, I mean, little doubt that there is a global scramble for materials. And I'm just going to name one of them copper, for example. It's quite clear that, research suggests that by the year 2035, demand is going to outstrip supply by 30%. Just give us a big picture overview of that, that race and the gap between demand and supply, given the profound need for minerals and material more broadly.
Yeah. I think as a starting point, if we look at what the the major macro drivers of metals demand are at the moment, in addition to the baseline of sort of industrialization and the day to day lives that we live, there's a trend around electrification. We're seeing that, you know, globally, there's a trend around digitalization and there's a trend around decarbonization. And all of those three things are very metal intensive industries. You know, if you look at data centers, for example, we expect to see a tripling in data centers between now and 2035, with investments of between 3 and $7 trillion in the next five years alone. So that's a huge center of demand. Another one would be electricity transmission. Of course, if we're going to create all this new energy, this green energy, we have to move those electrons to where it will be consumed. And we're seeing there the need for around 600,000,000km of new transmission lines to be built, again, a very metals intensive activity. We're also still seeing, despite what you might read in the press, significant growth in the adoption of electric vehicles, perhaps not in the, in the US to the same extent right now, but certainly in China and certainly in Europe. So all of these are very metals intensive applications. What we see on the supply side. And you're exactly right, Ravi. If we take copper as an example, by by 2035, we expect to see a doubling in the copper that's required relative to today. And based on known supply forecasts, we expect to fall 30% short by then. And that's a huge problem. Because supply and demand always meet. And if the metals aren't available, it means that we can't build the grid that we need or we can't develop the data centers that are required, or we'll have less EVs on the roads. So there are real world consequences of this. And and the reasons are numerous. One is that the timeline to develop a new mine can be very long from, from identification of the resource through all of the technical work, the planning, the permitting. In particular, it can take 10 to 20 years to bring a new mine online, whereas a data center can be developed in 1 to 3. So we've got a discontinuity of timelines. Secondly, we're working across national boundaries. And as we've experienced recently, that is more challenging than it's ever been before. So predictable and resilient supply chains are now at risk through what we're seeing happening with with trade and tariffs. And then finally and it's something we talk about in all areas of the supply chain. It impacts data centers. It impacts the grid. It also impacts mines. But is permitting. And permitting is challenging in most jurisdictions. It's very slow but it's also very unpredictable. So I think what we see is huge growth in demand now for things that the world wants and the world needs. And we see a mining sector, which ultimately is the sector that produces the the metals and critical minerals are not moving at the same speed to, to provide reliable supply into the future.
So that's a great overview, especially from the private sector. Let's try and understand how countries fit in. Minister Alcaraz, you started Saudi Arabia's Ministry of Industry and Mineral Resources in 2019, and you're making mining now your country's third industrial pillar, after oil and petrochemicals. Talk to us a bit about how quickly, the investments you're making pay off. And in general, given the the growing interest, as described by Jonathan in materials, what is the role of a country versus a company?
Well, thank you. And it's great to be to be here with you. I will start with, how we look as a government to the mining sector. And for us, really, it's an economic play. It's, we are very mindful that, to develop a sector like mining, it is very hard to expect returns that are coming, quickly. But we realize that unlocking the value that we have in our natural resource of, of of of the different minerals that we have will definitely help our economy to grow, diversify. If I have to summarize our vision 2030, it's all about diversifying our economy from an oil based economy to a more diverse. And we have been able to show since the launch of our vision, that today, actually, the majority or more than 50% of our GDP is actually coming from non-oil, revenue and non-oil GDP. And the quality of that is very strong. It's affecting our, our exports. So we have record high exports in 24, 25, 24 and 25. And we expect to continue. And that's that's an important element just to to set the scene with regards to the return. The other thing is the as, as my colleague, he mentioned that the timeline of investment in, in, in in mining is is very long. We as a country. And this comes back to your question, we try to solve this. So permitting, for example, and I remember when I visited Canada in my way to meet the minister, I was reading, just, the profile, and it says it takes ten years to to to have a permit. I thought there must be something wrong. So I asked my team. There must be a typo. Are you sure? They said, yeah, we are sure. So even when I was there, I was still not sure. So I said, I understand that it takes 3 to 7 years to to to have a license in, in Canada. He said no, it takes ten years. So this is really this.
Is how long does it take in Saudi Arabia exactly.
Now it takes in Saudi Arabia between 30 and 90 days. And the reason for that is we learned very, very early, that permitting is an is a is a bottleneck in the system. And it has to do I think with especially with countries who started a while back in mining. We all know and we have to be very, very frank about this. Mining doesn't have a good reputation globally, and often.
With good reason.
For good reasons, definitely for good reasons. And that's why we are trying to change. We are trying to change this. And, you know, cutting down the licensing process doesn't only solve it, you need also to show the communities you know, you need to show the people the impact of of the mining on their life. And I think one of the things that we are probably lucky about, people still in Saudi remember the impact of oil when oil was discovered. It has it had a great impact on our people, our society, the quality of life, education, health care and the standard of living. And today we see that also coming back again. And I remember the first site we offered for auction in Saudi, maybe five years ago, the, the companies who did some of the drilling, they said we, we it's very, very strange in this area, normally when you get to a country, we went to an area, everybody is trying to push us out here. People are even offering, you know, to, to, to go to their, to their farms and do the digging. So I think governments need to, to, to, to ensure that the community understand the impact. Sure. And also the policies. So when we issued our, new mining investment law, it had great emphasis on the development of the society and the community. Of course, the the environment, the emphasis of technology, because we believe that we want to build the future, mines. We don't want to build old mines. And. Sure. And I think that's that's the role of the, of governments. In addition, I want to close with this, as a result of all of this, we we realized also that it's not enough to do this in our jurisdiction. It's very important to have a global, you know, movement. And we that's that's why we launched the future mineral form, which today I'm I'm proud to say it is it is the most important platform of global mining leaders coming in one place in Riyadh, different stakeholders, from governments to mining companies, financial institutions, academia, technology providers. It was just last week we had more than, almost 100 countries, 60 international organizations, the top companies in, in mining, in financing and so on. And I think that's that's our contribution, at least as a country, also to the global community.
Sure. Boitumelo, all of this sounds great, but I have to say, Saudi Arabia has unique advantages. I mean, most countries don't have it's money. Most countries have checks and balances that are much more messy and onerous and simply can't cut down the permitting from ten years to 90 days, as you said, very impressive. But but other countries, it's not a model that every country can follow as easily, as Saudi Arabia has. And and I worry that we could be entering a world of haves and have nots. And given the work you do in Southern Africa and the countries in investments you oversee, what is your sense of, models that we can, put forward that are more equitable and sustainable and available as, as things that, that countries that aren't as rich as Saudi Arabia can pull off.
Thank you. And greetings to my fellow panelists and good afternoon, everyone. Saudi Arabia has the money. The region that I come from has the minerals. I come from the southern Africa, region. And we are a development finance institution. Yes, we are wholly owned by the South African government, but we operate across sub-Saharan Africa. Now, if we look at critical minerals and the southern Africa region, we have the copper belt through Zambia, we have cobalt, 60% of of that, most of it even I think it's about 70% coming out of the DRC. We have PJM metals coming out of, South Africa. We, together with the World Economic Forum, when we we wanted to really understand the depth, you know, of this opportunity. We did a study, to really understand, you know, what, what is the level of the opportunity within the region and the role that we can play as a development finance institution over and above what we have been doing in the mining space? We did, the research on, on that. And, and what we are seeing is a big opportunity for the region where, you know, these critical minerals are not only a commodity, but we are seeing a strategic asset in these critical minerals, considering that there is also I mean, when you listen to the G7 countries, when you are the the engagements at the G20, the conversation was around critical minerals. What is key? What is key for us as a continent is to ensure that the previous models of extraction are not adopted. We actually need to have, the this opportunity having, certain development outcomes where when we extract the minerals, it's not extracting from pit to port, but there's a, there is an element of beneficiation. We do understand that putting that level of infrastructure takes time, but the sooner we do that, the better. The second thing I would like to mention that because we cannot do it, you know, we can go country by country, but that would be inefficient as a region. We actually need to negotiate the terms of how we're going to take advantage of this opportunity together. So the role of Sadc countries coming together and actually, you know, having a plan of how they actually going to, to to do this is going to be key. The the minister was mentioning the, you know, the ease of permits, the, the regulatory environment, those elements are key. And if there is, you know, as a standardized plan across the region, both on the key corridors for development, I'll give an example. We've recently just funded, signed for the Lobito corridor together with USD, DFC for the Lobito corridor. We we we we we we need to agree, you know, on the, on the terms around permits and all of these things. And I think that is what we need to do differently. You know, that coordination, that integration between with within the region to adequately take advantage of this opportunity and what we will do for it will give us more leverage. I think, you know, when we are a collective, it you know, it gives much, you know, much more leverage. And and we've seen the strength of that regional, you know, leverage with how the EU, for instance, does its negotiations.
Excellent. Jack, let me bring you in. You run sandbox. AQ if I were to just throw a little bit of a curveball into this, what if we're in an AI bubble? What happens to all of this investment that we're talking about and the excitement and critical minerals globally? Do you see that unraveling? If this is a bubble?
Well, it's good to be here and it's good to be the curveball that comes in so excellent. That's why I made sure not to wear the tie. I'm the tech guy here. So, no, it's a great question. And let me just first step back, because even beyond the needs of the AI industry, which is driving some of the needs for data centers. And, John, you spoke about that very eloquently. The worlds of AI and quantum, these twin engines of computation are, just as we speak now, smashing right into the mineral supply chain and the hydrocarbon supply chain. And there are two main drivers to that that I think are more fundamental and secular and will survive any potential, you know, correction or even a reset of a bubble. The first is that when we look at materials traditionally when we said we need neodymium, I know neodymium is on the top of mind of everyone here in this room. It is something that you use every day. If you drive a car, if you're in a plane, you're using high performance magnets and high performance magnets. One of the key ways to make them is either neodymium, part of the rare earths those lanthanides remember from back from periodic table land, that crazy thing on the bottom, and then its neighbor didymium. And traditionally in the in the mining and materials space we said, well, we need to get at that. Right now, the majority of the processing of neodymium happens in one country, China. It is sourced from a number of countries, but it is processed there mainly. Recently, the United States government did a deal with MP materials, mountain pass materials to start mining some neodymium in the mountain pass mine in California and to scale that up. But that will take a number of years. So traditionally when we wanted to get a material, we'd have to go find it, mine it and process it. But now with computation, both quantitative AI, not language AI, not ChatGPT or Gemini, but new and novel AI that understand physics, materials and energy and and engineering. These kinds of AI, combined with new quantum techniques, allow us to ask a very different question. A question that what is the end goal? We want a high performance material, a high performance magnet. As an example, every fighter jet, every electric vehicle car, every train, everything we use, many things we use in transportation, use these high performance magnets. We can now ask the question of the software. Help us design a different alloy, an alloy of other materials that are readily available that were already mining, already have permits already at scale and already plentiful. That can give us the performance of a neodymium based magnet. That's a very different question. Until until two years ago, we didn't have the technical ability to answer that question, but that is now changing. So that's the first driver. And I want to recognize John Martinez in the audience. John was was recently recognized by the Nobel Committee for his work in in quantum. And we were colleagues at Google. And it's great to see that this tool now is now being being recognized. But the second driver I want to expand, if we could from just materials also include the hydrocarbon space. And the minister is here from Saudi, one of the leaders in the hydrocarbon space. Traditionally when we thought about hydrocarbons, we bring it up from the ground and then we do some basic refining using platinum catalysts, other high performance catalysts, and we turn it into fractions. We turn it into high octane gasoline to use in our cars. We turn it to naphtha to make industrial products such as plastics. But then the bottom of the stack is something that often is either waste or sold at very low cost. We now again have the ability to take those bottom of the stack refining stack and turn it into high value. And Sabic and Saudi and many other companies are starting to do this now with this kind of software. So this is much more fundamental secular trend that is well beyond the needs of an AI data center or things like that. This is something that now in the hydrocarbon space must happen. Why? Because if you are Aramco, if you are Exxon, you want to have more revenue and EBITDA. Traditionally you'd say, I want to either pump more or try to control the price via some control strategy like OPEC or things like that. Now that so much is being pumped around the world in so many different places, we can no longer control price that way. Instead, we must go to value add. We must think of the topics of the world. We must think of the Exxons, the Dow's, the DuPont's, the BASF of the world. And we must add value in new ways. This means taking raw materials and making them into high value products such as graphite and carbon fiber.
If I'm hearing you correctly, just a second, Minister. That was brilliant because you deflected my question about whether we're in an AI business to to essentially say that AI will enable better mining, and a perpetual.
New. materials beyond even this, this revolution.
Yeah. That's brilliant. Minister. Yeah, I.
Think, I totally agree. And I think, the way we predict the future demand of minerals, I think, need to be reevaluated. So, let's let's take the beginning of this session when we talked about nickel, nickel, nickel. Was it or copper? Sorry. We are predicting it exactly how much we use it, what we use it for. And also taking into account, I think we need to change the the way we think about it, because I totally agree that today with technology, with a lot of science, there's a lot of alternatives that new materials, different materials can be developed, but also legacy systems and legacy ways of doing things. I used to be in private sector and most of, of, of my experience was in machinery. And when you look at the machinery business, a lot of spare parts are sitting either in warehouses or or stacks of equipment unused, today, with with additive manufacturing and 3D printing, you can turn, you know, 100 million, let's say, warehouse of spare parts into probably one tenth. And you can, you can have a small, additive manufacturing or 3D printing. So this is the kind of advancement that we really need to look at to ensure that we are not only looking at the mining or minerals of the future as the same way we are doing it today. We need to think by adding into the equation how things are could be done, how we are doing things much faster.
Jonathan, let me bring you in, if I may. I'll come to you in a second. But, Jonathan, the minister, earlier, said that mining doesn't have a good reputation. And I just want to give you a moment to address that, because, you know, amid this talk of making permits easier, of a lot more investment in that space, what are you doing and what can be done more broadly to ensure that, mining is safer, cleaner, and is incorporating some of these technologies to, to to do things in a way that couldn't have been done before.
Yeah. Look, I think there are many responsible miners in the world who work very hard to operate to the highest levels of safety and sustainability in terms of their activities. You know, in Canada, where where we're located, they have a very high performance set of mining standards. And we're working together with the International Council on Mining and Metals to pull together a global set of standards that we would ask all mining companies to subscribe to. So we won't have those regional or country.
That's when you have a ten year permit, of course.
Yes. Well, I'll come to that. You know, as an example, in Chile, where we've recently built a, a very large mine, we started community consultation early. We have 22 agreements with communities and fishermen's unions in that area. All of our power is generated from renewable sources that we have contracted. So solar and wind in Chile, all of the water for the project is desalinated. We've built the desalination plant, and we've actually handed water permits back to communities because we don't want to use them. I think it's a great example of how mining can be done very well and sustainably. And of course, we offer jobs and we create capability within the local communities, including within the indigenous communities in this area. Now, from a permitting perspective, I'd say I'm very surprised that you could permit any mine in 30 to 90 days for for the reason that there is a significant amount of environmental baseline work you have to do to ensure that you can be a responsible miner. Now, for sure, that shouldn't take ten years. And I think, you know, as we work with the government in Canada at the moment, as they look to dramatically shorten timelines, that technical work will still have to be done. The environmental work will have to be done. The consultation with indigenous groups in particular, will have to be first and foremost in what we do. But, if you can simplify the regulation, if you can provide a predictable process so we know exactly when we will get a decision. And the decision, by the way, for every mine shouldn't always be. Yes. I mean, there are some mines that shouldn't be built because the environment should be protected, or there are other sensitive reasons regarding the community that shouldn't happen. What we're looking for is a predictable and repeatable process, so we can have more certainty around the way we invest. But I do think there are many companies in the industry who hold themselves to the highest standards here. Yes, there's been a checkered past in mining is there has been in many other industries across the world, but we're working very hard to change that now. And we recognize that if we want, our downstream partners to, to use our products, they're going to hold us to account for having been responsible, as will end consumers.
Sure. So, you know, the World Economic Forum hasn't always had these sessions on critical minerals and materials. It is now for a reason. This is suddenly really, really important in geopolitics for many reasons. AI, as we've been discussing, but also the rising nationalism and protectionism that I mentioned at the start. So let me bring geopolitics front and center for a few minutes, and I'm going to come to you first. South Africa, for example, is not on good terms with the United States. For a variety of reasons. America has also put some very tough tariffs on South Africa. What is your sense of from your vantage point where you are in Southern Africa, how geopolitical tensions and tariffs are going to make it a lot harder to do some of the investments that you're interested in and talk a little bit about the flux here, because we're in a moment of immense business uncertainty. We don't know what kinds of geopolitical decisions will upend businesses.
I think we we are, navigating uncertain times. And, when you look at, for instance, within the South African, context and other products that we export, to the, to the, to the US, from agricultural products to automotive as well, obviously we are negatively, impacted by by that. But, you know, we, we our, our government continues to engage, with the, with the US government. Not now there's a plan to, look at the extension of, of, Agoa and that is still, you know, at the, that is still at, at, at, at play. But the opportunity here is, you know, when, when Jack was talking and he was talking about technology and I'm looking at critical minerals. Is it the new oil? Could be critical minerals. You know that we have an opportunity here within the region to say, how do we leverage these technologies? By reducing the cost of exploration, of mining so that.
But if I may, just to throw a little bit of a bombshell into this this week at Davos, easily the biggest topic is whether the United States is going to invade Greenland at some point. One of the supposed reasons for America's interest in it is critical minerals, rare earths in Greenland. So let's say you have great deposits of critical minerals in southern Africa. Let's say the United States says, you know what? We kind of want them. It's in our national security to have some of this. What happens then?
Well, what happens then? I will give an example. We've just recently signed an agreement with USD to for for the building of the Lobito corridor. That's a US development finance institution. Institution. We are development finance institution in Southern Africa. So I have an example of something that just happened recently where there is, collaboration that is actually, happening. Yes, there are these uncertainties, but at the institutional level, we need to do what we need to do and take advantage of the opportunities that are available.
Minister, let me put you on the spot with a similar question. I mean, Saudi Arabia has great relations with the United States, especially under the Trump administration. When you look at a United States that is being a little bit more open in how it is expressing its its national interest. So not just. I suppose.
Very polite.
A United States that defines America first. In fact, Howard Lutnick, the Commerce Secretary, right before this session, he said it. He said, you know, I care about sovereignty. And then he said, our sovereignty, but not Canada's, not Greenland's. He didn't say that, but that was the the implication. You know, as a senior politician who cares about sovereignty, how are you navigating this moment?
Well, I think the first of all, I mean, we we signed with the US an agreement with regards to critical minerals also. And I the company that you mentioned, MP was, interested also in doing work with our Madden company in Saudi. Still this is also ongoing. So I it reality is that mining and materials and critical minerals cannot be done. We we countries need to work together.
But do you trust the United States?
Of course we do trust the United States have been and a very strong ally to Saudi Arabia. We have been doing a strong, partnerships both on government level but also private sector. And it has been a very.
Does invade Greenland. You'll still trust them.
We'll wait and see. Wait and see. But I think here we are talking about is the is the geopolitics as a standalone or is the critical minerals the reason for geopolitics. And I would argue to say that the reason of the tension of geopolitics is actually the criticality of the minerals, the, the, the concentration in different areas of the world we have seen during Covid. I mean, as countries, not getting vaccines, when we trusted, the, you know, the global trade community, the WTO was a trusted organization to ensure that there is there is, you know, where, countries will produce, others can consume. When reality hit, we were, you know, containers were stolen from ports, containers were redirected that had, you know, basic stuff like, like, masks. And so we have to be also realistic in designing our resilience as countries. And, but again, it is very hard to imagine that you can produce things like magnets from one country. You know, China is, is a is a unique case, but they will need also they will need access to the materials, the, the fact that they were able to develop in technologies. I mean, that's good for them. I mean, this is we can't say that this is something but.
This wrong. With respect, Mr. Minister. This is part of the problem. Because if the United States and China five, ten years from now, are much more antagonistic than a lot of countries, geopolitical swing states like yours may end up having to pick a side.
Saudi has been a neutral company as a country for, for, for forever. And it will continue to do so. We, our first priority is our national interest. It's very clear, I can assure you that with today's advancement of technology, this concentration will will be broken. We cannot, stay and look at the world as it is, as it is stagnant. There is a change every day. There is a lot of alternatives. Today in Saudi Arabia, for example, we developed, with the with the Ministry of Energy, for example, a program, that is, that is introducing non-metallic products that are becoming more and more reasonable in cost and, very advanced in terms of, of their of their use and durability. So I think people when you pressure people, they, they are able to come up with new ideas. But the we should not wait until we are cornered. I think the rational thing to do is to collaborate. And that's what we are doing. We are creating a platform of collaboration in Saudi Arabia. We have been able to convince the world Bank, through the future mineral form, to reach introduce a their their strategy for, for minerals and critical minerals. We have been able to work with countries like Africa, Middle East and Central Asia, where we call the super region, who represent probably 3,033% of the global mineral reserve, but only contribute to 6%. We have been saying that without Africa, there will not be any energy transition. They will. It will be very hard to figure out. So we are bringing countries together to work together to to identify new players, new technologies, new areas. We need to help Africa in infrastructure. Having a mind is not enough. You need a railway, you need port. You need today. I think the Minister of Congo at the Future Mineral Form said it is the cost of logistics is 30% of the overall cost. This is this is a huge. So you need to collaborate as as countries to reduce the pressure on the minerals so that we don't think about these scenarios.
So Jack, let me bring you in because the question, of how countries navigate a fraught geopolitical moment with a lot of competition, potentially, countries forming blocs, whether it's a US-China bloc or not, I guess we'll find out in a few years. But the answer here was great, because it's clear that, clout, whether it is finances or size that matters. The other thing that matters is, collective action. So having other countries that can go along with you, what is the company version of that to secure your future, your your resources in a world that is geopolitically fractured?
Well, when you're building a company, if you want to build a global company, that's if you want to scale. You've got to build a global company. You've got to be active in North America. In Europe, we're very active in the Gulf region. And ultimately you want to be active in Asia as well. And it is a right now, a barrier that we can't be active in mainland China because of these these issues. And it is a major issue. I'll give one example of a case study, batteries. We're all familiar with batteries. When you think about large batteries, most people think of electric vehicles. And that is one demand for batteries. It demand that it's 100 times the size of the electric vehicle battery market is for stationary batteries, the size of half this room that will store energy. And there's some already deployed. Saudi, for example, is deploying now to get to about seven 8% of total grid power generation to be stored in batteries. We'll go beyond that eventually. In the U.S., we only have 1.5% storage of our grid in in any kind of battery or hydro, hydropower solution. But eventually most of the grid will have to have some kind of storage solution. That's about a $1 trillion market. 85% of all the batteries in the world are made in one country. You can guess where it is. China. 92% of all the lithium for those batteries is processed in China. And so again, we're in a world right now where due to, traditional division of labor and globalization, we have one country producing batteries for the entire world that is not really sustainable. That's not sustainable for a number of reasons. And when we think about the needs in Africa, Africa is the fastest growing continent in terms of population, in terms of electricity needs, in terms of a number of other applications. And we think about deployment of these batteries. We have to think in a way that we can produce batteries in many parts of the world, rather than just one part of the world. And so as a company, we have to think about alliances and partnerships. We have alliances and partnerships that allow us to thrive in the Gulf region, to thrive in Europe, to thrive in North America. I hope we can one day thrive in Asia. Right now, we are stymied by some of the geopolitical tensions there, but I hope one day that there could be more détente. So that allows us to do that. Today, though, it is very difficult to have a truly global company the way people did 50, 60 years.
Ago, just from what Jack was saying here, China has the stuff Africa needs. There are a lot of Western companies that are racing now to develop those things. From an African perspective, and China's been investing in Africa for many, many years now. When you look at this decision that that African companies and countries need to make, do we get from China what we need now or do we work with America and sort of the Western bloc, as it were, to develop things in the future? How is that decision playing out?
I think when what Jack said, to say to have only one place is not sustainable. So how do we create resilience and creating resiliency? When you look at where the minerals are, which are in Africa, the opportunity is in Africa. How do we process and beneficiate in Africa? The technologies are being developed. There's technology transfer opportunities as, as as well. There's African risk capital that can come into it or from other places in the in the world, so that there's African money in the, in the game.
So you're essentially saying you don't want to choose between China and the United States. You want both.
You could say the opportunity is to create global resilience. It's not about choosing, but it's about creating supply chain resilience for the for the globe and the solution being on the African continent.
Jack, if I can just come back to you on this because there are some areas where you actually do have to pick. I mean, if you think of tech stacks, you either do the Chinese tech stack or, you know, an American tech stack, you really can't do them both unless you've so much money that you do buy them both, but they never interact with each other. Same with defense. I mean, you you you buy a Chinese fighter jet or an American one. It's rare that you have them both. How do you see that playing out longer term?
Well, we're seeing it right now. If you look at deep sea, if you look at Kien Nguyen, known as Quen, which is from Alibaba, these are large language models that have proliferated now around the world. In fact, the most popular large language models in the continent of Africa and in a number of Southeast Asian countries are Chinese large language models. Not ChatGPT, not Google Gemini, not anthropic. They're actually cheaper to use. And they may not perform exactly the same, but for most parties it might be good enough. So already right now, people are voting with their feet and their keyboards in terms of what what technologies they're using now, in the future, I think what's going to happen is we're going to talk about not just sovereign AI, because countries need to make sure they have the resilience of understanding how to use AI for themselves, but also sovereign battery production, sovereign magnet production. And not to say that every country has to be a producer, but with automation of production, more countries will be producers than today. I don't think we're going to have the same concentration of manufacturing that we've allowed to happen for the last 30, 40 years. I think republics and nations are recognizing the danger in that, and more and more will use robotics and automation to bring manufacturing in a way that is very efficient back to their shores.
So once again, tech can be the source of the discussion and also the solution for the problems we're discussing. We've started very, very broad with material, but there was a lot here that we learned from from all of you. So let's hear it for Jack, Jonathan Boitumelo and Minister Alkuraya.
Thank you.
Lots of fun.
Thank you. That was great.
That was great. Excellent.
Vancouver.
Okay.